This post is answer to the post at http://www.writerbabu.com/post/sexual-exclusivity-islam-and-familial-bond-/4059/
Note - I have addressed the Author of the above post as 'You'. It doesn't mean you the reader.Also I don't intend to criticize any religion or belief just that the above post needed a fair answer and so this post is born.
The post starts off with the title 'Sexual exclusivity, Islam and Familial bond' but seems the author missed the meaning of word exclusive.
Monogamous man in relation with a monoandrous woman would be exclusive relationship. Not polygamous with monoandrous , neither the man is exclusively giving love (by the way spilling out is not love), nor the woman is getting exclusive love, warmth emotions and care. Money,share etc can keep someone alive but not uplift and evolve a person.
The author wrote "The husband becomes paranoid of an office going wife... Instead of families being stable it is rocked by paranoia, jealousy and fear, that the other half might get charmed by an external male/female."
Seems Islam took good care of paranoia of over-possessive husbands and allowed them to cover up their women and at the same time gave them liberty to have more than one for themselves. Author you are right, there is no such paranoia in Muslim men, there needn't be, the religion took care of their interests very well.
Let's find out what is women's position in Islam
The verse "'your wives are as tilth (farmland) unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will.' (Sura 2:223).
The acts - Father, brother, husband of a woman were beheaded and killed , she was enslaved as war booty,later was offered to convert to Islam and marry the crusader the same night (do slaves have free will to deny ?) , while the marriage was being consummated three days later the sounds coming from the newlyweds tent made the general of the groom worry about his well being , fearing what the fury of a young woman can do to a man whose army killed everyone she so dearly loved. What kind of woman would marry happily with consent on the same day her blood relatives are beheaded ? So much for strong familial bond ,to me it sounded more like an arranged rape.
About not having sex outside marriage -
The verse - 33:50 "O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war."
Having no sex outside marriage is what Islam says ? Islam permits sex with slave women, isn't it guilt free extramarital sex licence by design ? Or should I write about provisions for slaying the beast after having sex with it or instructions regarding not to sell its meat rather forbidding to fornicate with the beast.
Seems spilling of love covered camels too.
Rights of second wife you talked about -
Why not a man becomes a second husband of a woman , and have equal rights ? Seems men are being favored in Islam , not having to share their women.
Any supreme power won't differentiate between man and woman as they are only complimentary, a man exist because there is a woman and a woman exists because there was a man.
How come different rules based on gender ? gender is only there to serve one and only purpose - reproduce , there is no function otherwise.
Life is more than spilling love (and protein rich liquids).
Your views on Female liberation -
You wrote "Certainly their are also takers of "female liberation" amongst female feminists, but then, who said there are no loose females! They do so to have access to various penises."
So much for understanding women, a woman can attain much better climax from a vibrating toothbrush than from a penis, they are much more biologically advanced in that area. So for your understanding a woman doesn't need a penis to actually attain Ooomph , the little joystick is not such a desirable thing for women now , wake up !!
My twisted half always says life is unfair.Life is really unfair else all would have at-least fair share of neutral intelligence and ability to see things as they are.
Sad isn't it.
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Comments (34 so far )
PERCY KINGDAWN
Hats off to Sir Joseph the peacemaker :D
August 27th, 2013
Author
@Percy - his hat fell off somewhere , is that what you mean :-p
August 27th, 2013
You are right that Islamic warriors took women as war booty. Why? Because this was the BEST option. Nothing? Yes, nothing. To realise this however, one needs to give a flight to imagintion as living a war seems unlikely to anyone of us here.
Coming back why does Islam keeps provision of keeping women as war booty? First because you cannot kill them, as they are non-combatants. Second, you cannot leave them on their own as in the absence of a male member they would be helpless, insecure and sexually vulnerable. What about solitary confinement, one may ask? Well, the idea of Islam is you cannot bring about a change in character of an individual by keeping him/her in jail. Hence, both male and female captives were inducted in family. It is for this reason many slaves became muslims who made very important contribution in the expansion of Islam. Some of them were given the key posts!
Regarding the general place of women in Islam, Islam was a revolution in terms of the right it gave to them. Before the arrival of Islam (and to this date, in many non-islamic societies), women were not even considered to be humans! They were considered to be a personification of devil/witch. To this day many women in india have been either outcasted or killed for the same reason. From share in property to right to worship, to be able to marry again (incase the husband died) or to get an education, or to marry her choice of man ,Islam empowered women immensely, which great civilisations/nations of the world could't have dreamt till 20th century. Islam gave women these rights, 1400 years back!
This is astonishing if you consider that sati was prevalent till few decades back. She was not allowed to marry again. They were married off without consent. Widows as young as 12 yrs were disowned and sent to vrindaavan to satisfy the lust of Brahmins (you may watch "water" by Meera Nair for this). Even today women in india are totured physically and mentally if they don't bear a baby boy. If she mensurates she has to sleep in courtyard. Her bed is made seperately. To this day, female fetocide is rampant. She didn't have share in husband's property till last decade and (I guess) she doesn't has the share in father's property even now. This explains how, many girls secretly wish dowry, as atleast this would serve as their share in father's property, else all would be brother's.! :)
Regarding polygamy, it had many purposes. First, since many men perished in warfare where would there widows go? If left, they would have only become public property, a thing to be exploited. By taking these women as wives, their respectable social status was restored. Not only that, she had equal rights as already existing wives.
Adding a little explanation, by "exclusive" in my article I meant exclusive to wives.
Coming back to polygamy, apart from supporting widows, Islam's primary concern is to stop illegal sex, as cheating hurts excrutiatingly, and is worst of the pains. Hence Islam has it, that a wife another wife yet another wife is better than Monogamy Hot secretary in the office Sexy girl next door and so on. Being transparent and treating the 'wives' equally is far more moral, than boasting of monogamy but cheating on the poor soul shamelessly.
But above all this, it is ONLY Islam that prescribes men to marry only once as it is impossible to be just/equal towards two or more wives:
"If you fear that you'll not deal fairly with orphan girls, you may marry whichever women seem good to you, two three or four. If you fear that you cannot be equtable (to them), then marry only one, or your slave(s)" [4:3] Quran
Now compare this with religions where there is no such prescriptions or where precedents like Krishna exist, who is indeed celebrated not for his relation with his wife Meera but his extra-marital affair Radha. Don't you find Islam extra ordinarily just?!?
Coming back why does Islam keeps provision of keeping women as war booty? First because you cannot kill them, as they are non-combatants. Second, you cannot leave them on their own as in the absence of a male member they would be helpless, insecure and sexually vulnerable. What about solitary confinement, one may ask? Well, the idea of Islam is you cannot bring about a change in character of an individual by keeping him/her in jail. Hence, both male and female captives were inducted in family. It is for this reason many slaves became muslims who made very important contribution in the expansion of Islam. Some of them were given the key posts!
Regarding the general place of women in Islam, Islam was a revolution in terms of the right it gave to them. Before the arrival of Islam (and to this date, in many non-islamic societies), women were not even considered to be humans! They were considered to be a personification of devil/witch. To this day many women in india have been either outcasted or killed for the same reason. From share in property to right to worship, to be able to marry again (incase the husband died) or to get an education, or to marry her choice of man ,Islam empowered women immensely, which great civilisations/nations of the world could't have dreamt till 20th century. Islam gave women these rights, 1400 years back!
This is astonishing if you consider that sati was prevalent till few decades back. She was not allowed to marry again. They were married off without consent. Widows as young as 12 yrs were disowned and sent to vrindaavan to satisfy the lust of Brahmins (you may watch "water" by Meera Nair for this). Even today women in india are totured physically and mentally if they don't bear a baby boy. If she mensurates she has to sleep in courtyard. Her bed is made seperately. To this day, female fetocide is rampant. She didn't have share in husband's property till last decade and (I guess) she doesn't has the share in father's property even now. This explains how, many girls secretly wish dowry, as atleast this would serve as their share in father's property, else all would be brother's.! :)
Regarding polygamy, it had many purposes. First, since many men perished in warfare where would there widows go? If left, they would have only become public property, a thing to be exploited. By taking these women as wives, their respectable social status was restored. Not only that, she had equal rights as already existing wives.
Adding a little explanation, by "exclusive" in my article I meant exclusive to wives.
Coming back to polygamy, apart from supporting widows, Islam's primary concern is to stop illegal sex, as cheating hurts excrutiatingly, and is worst of the pains. Hence Islam has it, that a wife another wife yet another wife is better than Monogamy Hot secretary in the office Sexy girl next door and so on. Being transparent and treating the 'wives' equally is far more moral, than boasting of monogamy but cheating on the poor soul shamelessly.
But above all this, it is ONLY Islam that prescribes men to marry only once as it is impossible to be just/equal towards two or more wives:
"If you fear that you'll not deal fairly with orphan girls, you may marry whichever women seem good to you, two three or four. If you fear that you cannot be equtable (to them), then marry only one, or your slave(s)" [4:3] Quran
Now compare this with religions where there is no such prescriptions or where precedents like Krishna exist, who is indeed celebrated not for his relation with his wife Meera but his extra-marital affair Radha. Don't you find Islam extra ordinarily just?!?
August 27th, 2013
So you see war is an exception. Islam, in regular life prohibits extra-marital sex. You need to take pain in order to know Islam. You need to give up laziness and actually read Quran with an open mind, without prejudice.
The question you asked are "template questions". These questions are usually asked by right wing saffron haters of Islam.
I'll suggest, do "read" Quran.
The question you asked are "template questions". These questions are usually asked by right wing saffron haters of Islam.
I'll suggest, do "read" Quran.
August 27th, 2013
Author
@Joseph
You wrote -
"Coming back why does Islam keeps provision of keeping women as war booty? First because you cannot kill them, as they are non-combatants ........."
Non combatants? What about slaying of thousands of non combatants in Madina ? The prophet himself went on killing spree with sword in both hands, beheading people while all they wanted was to leave with what they could carry on their camels? They had accepted defeat already.
So the question to spare the non-combatatants doesn't arise, except the women could be used for sexual gratification and also could be forced to prostitution for bringing reward to the owner (it was a normal practice to force the slaves to prostitution for gains).
One can have compassion and mercy without requiring someone to bend in front of the master.
If an unmarried man got a woman slave, he got to do what he desired with her, there goes the claim against premarital sex , heard about Mutha marriages ? They were not at all marriages, no commitment no respect but for the burning libido.
You wrote -
"Regarding the general place of women in Islam, .......!"
Mohamed’s first wife Khadīja bint Khuwaylid, whom he used to work for like many other people, was a widow. She had married thrice earlier and had accumulated significant amount of wealth by trading. She was known as Ameerat-Quraysh or princess of quaresh.A society which doesn't respect women or loots them doesn't call a woman princess or does it? Islam was not even born then.
Mohamed was not having any financial standing when Khadija sent for the marriage proposal(A 40 year old widow sending a marriage proposal to a 25 year old guy, who is in power here ?), he accepted marrying the rich, well to do khadija when it was told that he doesn't need to provide for the women he is going to be married. As earlier he had said he can't marry as he didn’t have means to support a woman.
Their marriage lasted 25 year till her death. This was the only time Mohamed was Monogamous and other women couldn't get the taste of compassion and mercy he was so able to shower as the history saw later.
A powerful woman kept the fountain of mercy to shower on other women, yet you say women were empowered by Islam and before Islam they were meek inhuman witches. Think again.
You wrote -
"This is astonishing if you consider that sati was prevalent till few decades back. She was not allowed to marry again....."
Yes, Sati was a very shameful practice indeed but it’s not prescribed in any of the texts, the first indent after which the act was named was carried out by Dakshayani, who self-immolated because she was unable to bear humiliation of her husband Shiva. Sadly it became a custom ,still to be quoted by opportunists. Never the less it was a shameful practice.
About right of women, in arthashastra and in manu smirity the provision are there, there are much kind of stri dhan ranging from gifts to inheritance. A sole daughter of a family ultimately got the whole inheritance as against 50% as mentioned in Islam.
Nothing astonishing about Islam if you consider that all what it propagates was already known, from circumcision to circumambulation of Kaba (kaba is not an Islamic building it existed long before Islam with idols, now sans idols but 'parikrama jaari hai' ).
You wrote -
"Coming back why does Islam keeps provision of keeping women as war booty? First because you cannot kill them, as they are non-combatants ........."
Non combatants? What about slaying of thousands of non combatants in Madina ? The prophet himself went on killing spree with sword in both hands, beheading people while all they wanted was to leave with what they could carry on their camels? They had accepted defeat already.
So the question to spare the non-combatatants doesn't arise, except the women could be used for sexual gratification and also could be forced to prostitution for bringing reward to the owner (it was a normal practice to force the slaves to prostitution for gains).
One can have compassion and mercy without requiring someone to bend in front of the master.
If an unmarried man got a woman slave, he got to do what he desired with her, there goes the claim against premarital sex , heard about Mutha marriages ? They were not at all marriages, no commitment no respect but for the burning libido.
You wrote -
"Regarding the general place of women in Islam, .......!"
Mohamed’s first wife Khadīja bint Khuwaylid, whom he used to work for like many other people, was a widow. She had married thrice earlier and had accumulated significant amount of wealth by trading. She was known as Ameerat-Quraysh or princess of quaresh.A society which doesn't respect women or loots them doesn't call a woman princess or does it? Islam was not even born then.
Mohamed was not having any financial standing when Khadija sent for the marriage proposal(A 40 year old widow sending a marriage proposal to a 25 year old guy, who is in power here ?), he accepted marrying the rich, well to do khadija when it was told that he doesn't need to provide for the women he is going to be married. As earlier he had said he can't marry as he didn’t have means to support a woman.
Their marriage lasted 25 year till her death. This was the only time Mohamed was Monogamous and other women couldn't get the taste of compassion and mercy he was so able to shower as the history saw later.
A powerful woman kept the fountain of mercy to shower on other women, yet you say women were empowered by Islam and before Islam they were meek inhuman witches. Think again.
You wrote -
"This is astonishing if you consider that sati was prevalent till few decades back. She was not allowed to marry again....."
Yes, Sati was a very shameful practice indeed but it’s not prescribed in any of the texts, the first indent after which the act was named was carried out by Dakshayani, who self-immolated because she was unable to bear humiliation of her husband Shiva. Sadly it became a custom ,still to be quoted by opportunists. Never the less it was a shameful practice.
About right of women, in arthashastra and in manu smirity the provision are there, there are much kind of stri dhan ranging from gifts to inheritance. A sole daughter of a family ultimately got the whole inheritance as against 50% as mentioned in Islam.
Nothing astonishing about Islam if you consider that all what it propagates was already known, from circumcision to circumambulation of Kaba (kaba is not an Islamic building it existed long before Islam with idols, now sans idols but 'parikrama jaari hai' ).
August 27th, 2013
Author
... continued
you wrote -
"Regarding polygamy, it had many purposes. First, since many men perished in warfare where would there widows go? ..."
You say if women were left like that they would become public property? Read history my friend women were much better off in that part of the world, Khadija was one such woman.
Also Why to kill men and create widows in first place ? Mohamed himself inserted burning rods in eyes and created fire over stomach of husband of Safiyya whom he married the same night.She was a noble woman before, belonging to a respectable and rich family and happily married monogamously to Kenana.
Her husband was tortured to death over hidden treasure of the city, looting and torturing created widows and then helped them by becoming second, third, or fourth wife of someone they won't have married by choice in first place.
You wrote -
"Coming back to polygamy, apart from supporting widows, Islam's primary concern is to stop illegal sex, as cheating hurts excrutiatingly......"
Having a fling outside once in a lifetime or bringing that fling home for lifetime, which one is better? If you have sisters and mothers ask them how it would feel having another woman living with them and sharing love of their husband.
Human are by design made to develop lasting deep relations, and one to one works best for both.
Islam did provisions for promiscuous men; it also acts as an additional reward for becoming Muslim. No wonder the numbers swelled.
Ask yourself why Mohamed didn't practice polygamy till his first wife was alive though he claimed many women in booty and had many slaves , you will get the answer you don't want to accept.
You wrote -
"But above all this, it is ONLY Islam that prescribes men to marry only once as it is impossible to be just/equal towards two or more wives:...... "
I mentioned intelligence in my post for the same reason, The sura says "If you fear that you cannot" means that despite what is being told if it's your own calling that you cannot do as advised then you do marry one.
It's not that the sura is telling to marry one, It’s the inbuilt good the sura is referring to, at least once it referred to inbuilt good and good discrimination.
Alas that too was picked up by opportunists as saying of the quran, so much for wit.
Your mention of Meera as wife of Krishna and Radha as his extramarital affair made me laugh at your knowledge. Meera never even saw Krishna she was born centuries after and Radha's love for krishna is much beyond your comprehension.
He was 8 at that time when he met Radha and he left vrindavan at 14.He Never met Radha afterwards. Give your imagination as much flight as you can and find what they might be doing in the raman rati forests, him being so young apart from playing, dancing and singing.
About reading Quran -
I Read it thrice, three different translation, commentaries, Hadith from Ayasha, Bukhari , Muslim and others.
Apart from that I read Arabian history, crusades of Mohamed, biography others around Mohamed including biographies of first four caliphs.
Sadly before reading all these I used to think about Islam as I thought about any other religion, after reading all in details I understood Islam is very unique in that it’s very misunderstood.
Thankfully reading Quran shattered many misconceptions I had about Islam.
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."
you wrote -
"Regarding polygamy, it had many purposes. First, since many men perished in warfare where would there widows go? ..."
You say if women were left like that they would become public property? Read history my friend women were much better off in that part of the world, Khadija was one such woman.
Also Why to kill men and create widows in first place ? Mohamed himself inserted burning rods in eyes and created fire over stomach of husband of Safiyya whom he married the same night.She was a noble woman before, belonging to a respectable and rich family and happily married monogamously to Kenana.
Her husband was tortured to death over hidden treasure of the city, looting and torturing created widows and then helped them by becoming second, third, or fourth wife of someone they won't have married by choice in first place.
You wrote -
"Coming back to polygamy, apart from supporting widows, Islam's primary concern is to stop illegal sex, as cheating hurts excrutiatingly......"
Having a fling outside once in a lifetime or bringing that fling home for lifetime, which one is better? If you have sisters and mothers ask them how it would feel having another woman living with them and sharing love of their husband.
Human are by design made to develop lasting deep relations, and one to one works best for both.
Islam did provisions for promiscuous men; it also acts as an additional reward for becoming Muslim. No wonder the numbers swelled.
Ask yourself why Mohamed didn't practice polygamy till his first wife was alive though he claimed many women in booty and had many slaves , you will get the answer you don't want to accept.
You wrote -
"But above all this, it is ONLY Islam that prescribes men to marry only once as it is impossible to be just/equal towards two or more wives:...... "
I mentioned intelligence in my post for the same reason, The sura says "If you fear that you cannot" means that despite what is being told if it's your own calling that you cannot do as advised then you do marry one.
It's not that the sura is telling to marry one, It’s the inbuilt good the sura is referring to, at least once it referred to inbuilt good and good discrimination.
Alas that too was picked up by opportunists as saying of the quran, so much for wit.
Your mention of Meera as wife of Krishna and Radha as his extramarital affair made me laugh at your knowledge. Meera never even saw Krishna she was born centuries after and Radha's love for krishna is much beyond your comprehension.
He was 8 at that time when he met Radha and he left vrindavan at 14.He Never met Radha afterwards. Give your imagination as much flight as you can and find what they might be doing in the raman rati forests, him being so young apart from playing, dancing and singing.
About reading Quran -
I Read it thrice, three different translation, commentaries, Hadith from Ayasha, Bukhari , Muslim and others.
Apart from that I read Arabian history, crusades of Mohamed, biography others around Mohamed including biographies of first four caliphs.
Sadly before reading all these I used to think about Islam as I thought about any other religion, after reading all in details I understood Islam is very unique in that it’s very misunderstood.
Thankfully reading Quran shattered many misconceptions I had about Islam.
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."
August 27th, 2013
Author
I come in Peace .
August 27th, 2013
"...Read history my friend women were much better off in that part of the world, Khadija was one such woman."
She was not a "war" widow. :)
She was not a "war" widow. :)
August 27th, 2013
@...Islam did provisions for promiscuous men; "
Then is it a different Islam that we see awarding death sentences for adultery?
Then is it a different Islam that we see awarding death sentences for adultery?
August 27th, 2013
@...Having a fling outside once in a lifetime or bringing that fling home for lifetime, which one is better?"
Having a fling outside? Like it could be anytime?
So you see Islam kept this special provision ONLY for war, so the widows are not left without support.
It's ONLY islam that offered marriage with war widows as compared to what crusades did, that is, kill and rape under the open sky.
Having a fling outside? Like it could be anytime?
So you see Islam kept this special provision ONLY for war, so the widows are not left without support.
It's ONLY islam that offered marriage with war widows as compared to what crusades did, that is, kill and rape under the open sky.
August 27th, 2013
@"..Meera never even saw Krishna"
How will you even support it with evidence, when the entire thing is mythology? :)
How will you even support it with evidence, when the entire thing is mythology? :)
August 27th, 2013
Just one question, if you really stand for what you say and you believe in it, why this anonimity? What are you afraid of? :)
August 27th, 2013
Author
Hope smile on your face looks as good as it looks here with a smiley.
@ She was not a "war" widow. :)
You talked about women being left with no men to take care of , sexually vulnerable, insecure BS now you are talking about war widows. A widow is a widow, she could have been left alone with the house and property her husband had. But nay the compassion and mercy needed spilling of love and looting so she couldn't have been left alone.
@Then is it a different Islam that we see awarding death sentences for adultery?
Its 100 moderate lashes if caught, and none if repented already. Though for women if they are found of lewd character and four other testify against her, she can be confined to the house till death. At-least Read your book carefully.
@So you see Islam kept this special provision ONLY for war, so the widows are not left without support.
So you mean now muslims are marrying war widows only, and in booty they only captured widows, what about unmarried girls? did they leave them unharmed ?
@It's ONLY islam that offered marriage with war widows as compared to what crusades did, that is, kill and rape under the open sky.
To begin with all captured women were designated slaves,they could rape them (sex without marriage and without consent) . Few choose to marry those they wanted to keep exclusively for themselves else slaves were traded and influential muslims might ask for a trade or exchange.
@How will you even support it with evidence, when the entire thing is mythology? :)
Mythology ? Good then why to worry about evidence? As is Gabriel a mythological creature on whose testimony the entire prophet-hood stood. Yet no-one except the claimant saw the character. Some evidence there.
Mythology is the thread of fabric laid down by islam, so atleast you should respect the mythological characters, removing them will remove the claim of the verses. Don't open Pandora's box for your own safety.
@ She was not a "war" widow. :)
You talked about women being left with no men to take care of , sexually vulnerable, insecure BS now you are talking about war widows. A widow is a widow, she could have been left alone with the house and property her husband had. But nay the compassion and mercy needed spilling of love and looting so she couldn't have been left alone.
@Then is it a different Islam that we see awarding death sentences for adultery?
Its 100 moderate lashes if caught, and none if repented already. Though for women if they are found of lewd character and four other testify against her, she can be confined to the house till death. At-least Read your book carefully.
@So you see Islam kept this special provision ONLY for war, so the widows are not left without support.
So you mean now muslims are marrying war widows only, and in booty they only captured widows, what about unmarried girls? did they leave them unharmed ?
@It's ONLY islam that offered marriage with war widows as compared to what crusades did, that is, kill and rape under the open sky.
To begin with all captured women were designated slaves,they could rape them (sex without marriage and without consent) . Few choose to marry those they wanted to keep exclusively for themselves else slaves were traded and influential muslims might ask for a trade or exchange.
@How will you even support it with evidence, when the entire thing is mythology? :)
Mythology ? Good then why to worry about evidence? As is Gabriel a mythological creature on whose testimony the entire prophet-hood stood. Yet no-one except the claimant saw the character. Some evidence there.
Mythology is the thread of fabric laid down by islam, so atleast you should respect the mythological characters, removing them will remove the claim of the verses. Don't open Pandora's box for your own safety.
August 27th, 2013
Author
@Just one question, if you really stand for what you say and you believe in it, why this anonimity? What are you afraid of? :)
for the same reason you are Joseph .. read a smiley here.
for the same reason you are Joseph .. read a smiley here.
August 27th, 2013
@.."You talked about women being left with no men to take care of "
Yes, but I talked of other reasons too, behind polytheism. Also, if you read the history it was the widow herself who sent the invitation for marriage. She was impressed by prophet's just ways! :)
Yes, but I talked of other reasons too, behind polytheism. Also, if you read the history it was the widow herself who sent the invitation for marriage. She was impressed by prophet's just ways! :)
August 27th, 2013
"Its 100 moderate lashes if caught, and none if repented already."
Not lashes, beheading. :)
Lashes is for pre-marital sex.
Not lashes, beheading. :)
Lashes is for pre-marital sex.
August 27th, 2013
If Islam is so opressive for women, why 50,000 people covert to Islam every year, and two thirds of them being women?
Though there are people converting in groups, few famous of them you can wikipedia. Yvonne ridley, who converted after she came from Taliban captivity! And another one Kristiane Backer, she was MTV host. She also authored "MTV to Mecca".
For stark comparison, you can you tube "conversions to Islam" :)
Though there are people converting in groups, few famous of them you can wikipedia. Yvonne ridley, who converted after she came from Taliban captivity! And another one Kristiane Backer, she was MTV host. She also authored "MTV to Mecca".
For stark comparison, you can you tube "conversions to Islam" :)
August 27th, 2013
Author
@Yes, but I talked of other reasons too, behind polytheism. Also, if you read the history it was the widow herself who sent the invitation for marriage. She was impressed by prophet's just ways! :)
Impressed by just ways of one of the employee and marry him or younger the better ?
But what is more interesting is the fact that a man married a woman 15 year elder to him at one time and after she is gone he starts marrying women as young as 11. The youngest was not even a war widow, at one time he didn't have means to marry even one woman on his own, later he married for choice and the choice was always younger ones. That much for just ways.
@Not lashes, beheading. :)
Lashes is for pre-marital sex.
Are you referring to quran ? find the verses for beheading please.
Impressed by just ways of one of the employee and marry him or younger the better ?
But what is more interesting is the fact that a man married a woman 15 year elder to him at one time and after she is gone he starts marrying women as young as 11. The youngest was not even a war widow, at one time he didn't have means to marry even one woman on his own, later he married for choice and the choice was always younger ones. That much for just ways.
@Not lashes, beheading. :)
Lashes is for pre-marital sex.
Are you referring to quran ? find the verses for beheading please.
August 27th, 2013
Also, I won't be arguing with you anymore. Reason? I can put counter facts against facts, but what do I counter fabrication with?
What you are presenting here is lie. How do I counter made up lies?
However, I hope that even if it is the bad face of Islam that makes people curious, let them read the Quran THEMSELVES. Many people have been brought to Quran by propoganda and then it changed their belief.
The same happened in USA after 9/11. The propoganda back-fired. Islam there too, is the fastest growing religion.
I'll just say people should read everything and compare. The truth will outshine everything else. :)
What you are presenting here is lie. How do I counter made up lies?
However, I hope that even if it is the bad face of Islam that makes people curious, let them read the Quran THEMSELVES. Many people have been brought to Quran by propoganda and then it changed their belief.
The same happened in USA after 9/11. The propoganda back-fired. Islam there too, is the fastest growing religion.
I'll just say people should read everything and compare. The truth will outshine everything else. :)
August 27th, 2013
Author
@Also, I won't be arguing with you anymore. Reason? I can put counter facts against facts, but what do I counter fabrication with?
Narcissism at its best, you can't argue for there is nothing you can argue upon but you won't say that, you will say I am not arguing because there is fabrication. Its like saying Jews saw Mohamed and realized he was the promised prophet and decided they will hate him. That is fabrication to manipulate fact of Jews hating Mohamed to plant a fabrication 'they recognized him as the promised prophet' . Islamic literature is full of such fabrications and implications.
Your fabrication "What you are presenting here is lie. How do I counter made up lies?" is based on the fact that I am presenting something here which is a fact, which you labelled a lie and made a fabrication that you can't counter something which is made up of lies. This is what is expected of someone who spends more time shaking his shaft than spending time being a good person.
About the numbers - Virus spread fastest, does it mean its a good thing ? There are more morons then there are wise, there are more beggars than there are rich. Going on numbers still ?
Narcissism at its best, you can't argue for there is nothing you can argue upon but you won't say that, you will say I am not arguing because there is fabrication. Its like saying Jews saw Mohamed and realized he was the promised prophet and decided they will hate him. That is fabrication to manipulate fact of Jews hating Mohamed to plant a fabrication 'they recognized him as the promised prophet' . Islamic literature is full of such fabrications and implications.
Your fabrication "What you are presenting here is lie. How do I counter made up lies?" is based on the fact that I am presenting something here which is a fact, which you labelled a lie and made a fabrication that you can't counter something which is made up of lies. This is what is expected of someone who spends more time shaking his shaft than spending time being a good person.
About the numbers - Virus spread fastest, does it mean its a good thing ? There are more morons then there are wise, there are more beggars than there are rich. Going on numbers still ?
August 27th, 2013
Author
Rest in peace as you 'cum' in peace, read a smiley here once again.
August 27th, 2013
Dear Author, Sir Joseph is a waste of time and thought, he is what we call a "Chikna Ghada". So peace him off and let him wait for his virgin wives and war widows. And all the luck in the world to those ladies.
August 27th, 2013
Author
Fabrication at its best, and now they are parroting the good things, saying the beheading in the verses actually means changing the mind, and cutting hands means changing the accountability. Fabrication is the name of the game.
August 27th, 2013
Author
@ Riya thanks :-)
August 28th, 2013
I suggest u to never really never ever read Quran at all.... it will gonna spoil all ur great idea.... Islam is religion based on nature ..... now just think ur self how nature created men and women.... with whom nature filled with more desire of sex men or women????? if u can answer that by ur self i hope half of ur argument is over ......
August 30th, 2013
I believe every person has a different amount of desire for sex, hardly depends upon the gender.
August 31st, 2013
Author
@Samahir Siddique Libido and hormone drive are acceptable facts, but then gender difference has only the purpose of procreation, life start by it but pragmatism calls for the higher purpose for any beginning. There is an end to any effort. Creation is one part where it is leading that is the next.
Desire, sex etc are all accepted who said they are not ? But creating life around it is not better than living life like any other animal.
Where we as human fit in the matrix of life that the question.
Desire, sex etc are all accepted who said they are not ? But creating life around it is not better than living life like any other animal.
Where we as human fit in the matrix of life that the question.
August 31st, 2013
interesting post..interesting disussion..
ibelieve in the prophet of god,alright. I think by research he was an honest and kind man which is why khadija married him in the first place. However, the society in which god sent his prophet was war ravaged and primitive in many ways. you couldnt compare it tothe Indian society of the past with all the riches. That was desertland where people led very tough and unforgiving lives. The rule of sword prevailed. So it is under this atmosphere that Muhammad was given the task of making a sustainable civilization amid the bloodshed and beastly ignorance. So if you study the tenets of ISLAM, they make sense from that point of view mostly. It is a way of life with rules prescribed for everyday living and not really a lot of them are spiritual insights intothe godly realm. some of them may be sure but kmostly it is these way of life tenets that are tested so much in the modern day and age. some of them have lost significance surely as the circumstances have changed vastly from 1400 years before and that Ithink is the challenge of Islam - to maintain a fine balance between tradition and the changing realities.
the fundamentals of islam are pretty strong maybe, but some finer adjustments need to be made as the times have changed. Every major religion of the world has had to make those adjustments. And I think the different sects which come up in islam is a reflection of the same. I am byno means an expert on Islam butjust my understanding from a distance maybe.
ibelieve in the prophet of god,alright. I think by research he was an honest and kind man which is why khadija married him in the first place. However, the society in which god sent his prophet was war ravaged and primitive in many ways. you couldnt compare it tothe Indian society of the past with all the riches. That was desertland where people led very tough and unforgiving lives. The rule of sword prevailed. So it is under this atmosphere that Muhammad was given the task of making a sustainable civilization amid the bloodshed and beastly ignorance. So if you study the tenets of ISLAM, they make sense from that point of view mostly. It is a way of life with rules prescribed for everyday living and not really a lot of them are spiritual insights intothe godly realm. some of them may be sure but kmostly it is these way of life tenets that are tested so much in the modern day and age. some of them have lost significance surely as the circumstances have changed vastly from 1400 years before and that Ithink is the challenge of Islam - to maintain a fine balance between tradition and the changing realities.
the fundamentals of islam are pretty strong maybe, but some finer adjustments need to be made as the times have changed. Every major religion of the world has had to make those adjustments. And I think the different sects which come up in islam is a reflection of the same. I am byno means an expert on Islam butjust my understanding from a distance maybe.
October 2nd, 2013
Author
"which is why khadija married him in the first place" old men been lusting young women and old women lust young men albeit secretly its a known fact. Desperation meets curiosity :-p .
October 6th, 2013
oooohhhh plzzzz will you......... there is not just one young man in Arab :) khadija is an noble woman impressed by his honesty and truthfulness and there is not just lust they make a pour legal relation.... just lust don't drive to that...... ((After all how many time u feel lust and how many times u end up married with that girl????)) relations are made on different basis Mr at least be practical........
October 12th, 2013